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I seriously, seriously need to stop reading boards. The amount of disrespect is unbereable. TRUE FANS do this, people need to realise that, this is the truth, people disagreeing with me ruin my fun and so on and so forth. We are not the Borg for godssakes. Disagreement is what makes the world go round. Damn, I must be a glutton for pain to go back over and over.

This is seriously my semi-first online fandom, Buffy/Angel was just one board so is this truly the way the cookie crumbles? It`s been nearly two years now but I still can`t move on from that question. So I`m afraid you have to bear with random bouts of handflinging from me until my thick head has adapted to this. :)

Comments

( 14 have dazzled me — Dazzle me )
aithne414
Oct. 14th, 2007 05:32 pm (UTC)
Since I started out my fannish life on TWoP, I think I have a skewed perspective as to how people should behave. Talking about the boards on the boards is wrong. Talking about your opinion of other posters' opinions rather than the show is wrong. Being a jerk? Wrong. Being self-righteous? Wrong.

And then I go to other boards where people do that sort of bullying as a matter of course, and I'm like, O.o, WTF?!

People always whine about TWoP and how harsh it is over there, but at least the mods enforce some goddamn MANNERS.
astri13
Oct. 14th, 2007 05:37 pm (UTC)
People always whine about TWoP and how harsh it is over there, but at least the mods enforce some goddamn MANNERS.

That`s certainly true. I mean I got dinged mself but I rather have that than this personal bashing and asshattery that goes on elsewhere. I don`t know but I got my yah-yah`s out in kindergarten where everybody was like "the world revolves around me" before another kid smacked you with a hefty dose of reality - sometimes literally. :) And now I`m feeling like back in kindergarten on occassion.
aizjanika
Oct. 14th, 2007 06:25 pm (UTC)
We are not the Borg for godssakes. Disagreement is what makes the world go round.

LOL Exactly! For whatever reason, this idea seems to be going the way of the dinosaur. People don't even want to know that other people disagree or have a different way of thinking about things. They must have an "agenda" or just be mean or whatever...

And, yes, I do think this is the way it goes. Supernatural is the third fandom in which I've been more heavily involved, and I've seen the same thing in each of them, over and over and over, sometimes over different issues.

Right now the "bad" fans of Supernatural are the underdog, but in the Stargate fandom, the "bad" fans turned around and acted the exact same way when the show began going in a direction that they liked. They acted just as bad or worse to anyone who didn't think like The Collective.

This just goes to show (me) that this is really the way it goes.

I actually think it's kind of understandable. I wasn't so much in the midst of things in the Dawson's Creek fandom, but in the Stargate fandom... I watched the show on my own from seasons 1 - 7 and a little of 8. I wasn't in the online fandom, and I was catching up via DVD, mostly, and recording the show...

Then, I remember there was this commercial for Stargate and it featured Sam, Jack, and Teal'c, but no Daniel. Now...for me, Daniel was one of the most important characters, definitely the most compelling. The entire premise of the show was to tell his story. I wondered if he wasn't even going to be on the show any more or...what? So that's when I started searching online and jumping into fandom stuff to find out what the story was about it. *g*

I watched the show without fandom input or analysis. I saw the Jack and Daniel relationship as being as crucial to that show as the Dean and Sam relationship on Supernatural. I liked Jack. I loved Sam Carter in the beginning, but later found her a bit annoying at times, but I enjoyed the team aspect of the show, and felt every character was important, but Jack & Daniel were the primary characters and relationship on the show. When the show downplayed that sometimes, I was annoyed, but made excuses for it in my own mind. *g* I saw that they had tiny little hints of Jack/Sam ship on that show, but they were so very minimal and never went anywhere that I just dismissed it as having no importance to the show. I was not even a slasher at the time, so it wasn't the slash that I was interested in.

This is split because it's too long. *g*
aizjanika
Oct. 14th, 2007 06:25 pm (UTC)
Then...I came online. Every place I went online (at first) was so full of Jack and Sam. I was...freaked. Were these people just insane? Were they even watching the same show? Were they just so set on pushing their romantic agenda on a show where it really had no place that they were deliberately downplaying the importance of Daniel?

And the Daniel haters! It was insane! Everyone seemed to hate Daniel Jackson and that even extended to his "horrible" actor who was, apparently, not only the worst actor on earth, but a terrible, horrible person in his personal life.

And the Jack & Sam lovers! lol As far as they were concerned, Jack and Sam was canon on the show. And all I could think was WTF? Because...seriously...I watched the entire show and never saw that, but these people had Jack and Sam as being in True Love and then deciding that they couldn't be together for the good of humankind and the universe and again... WTF? I never saw that on the show. lol (And I still never have.)

I really wondered about it all, and I'm afraid that I said some stupid things in various places, probably especially at TWOP. *g* I really thought everyone had an agenda and they were just mean if they didn't love Daniel and if they were pretending that Jack and Sam were THE relationship on the show. *g*

But over time, I realized that they all just had a different view of life and of the show than I did. Everyone was looking at it from different angles. I realized after time went on was that some people were just going to notice different things and place more importance on those things, because that's what spoke to them. They were not just being mean and hateful about what they believe, though sometimes they *were* mean and hateful if people didn't see things they way they believed, but that didn't mean their opinions were any less valid...

And now I see this in the Supernatural fandom. It's like when you're driving. Anyone who drives slower than you is an asshole, but if they drive faster than you, they are crazy. *g* I see this on both sides now. The overwhelming majority who are determined to like anything and everything about the show no matter what think that anyone who doesn't is just a jerk--a "hater" or people who just can't be happy with anything or people who should just stop watching the show and leave fandom and stop ruining things for everyone else.

But...on the other side, among us "bad" fans, I see the same thing. Those who like the direction of the show must be crazy, etc. etc. etc. *g* (And at times, I must admit, I agree. I do think that all points are valid, but sometimes I do wonder where some of it comes from and what this says about our society. *g*) I try hard to respect other opinions, though...

More than that, though, in the Supernatural fandom (at least on LJ), I've seen all of this taken a step further and that there is a concerted effort to characterize all people who disagree in a certain way and make it a shameful and bad thing not to accept whatever comes on the show without question. It's hard for me to explain, but I think that the "Kripke is God" people have taken this to a new level in fandom that I believe is indicative of society nowadays, and a very strong desire to have everyone conform.
astri13
Oct. 14th, 2007 06:54 pm (UTC)
It's hard for me to explain, but I think that the "Kripke is God" people have taken this to a new level in fandom that I believe is indicative of society nowadays, and a very strong desire to have everyone conform.

That`s true. Certainly whenever I get this "trust Kripke, he hasn`t disappointed us yet" I do a double-take. Who is this "us" person you speak of? I have been disappointed on various occassions. Of course then comes the "then stop watching, you un-true fan" retaliation. And then I give up. It`s just not how I can have a discussion and it saddens me but I guess I have to just move on.
Don`t think a consensus can be reached in an environment that has its sights set on perfect harmony.
aizjanika
Oct. 14th, 2007 11:16 pm (UTC)
Of course then comes the "then stop watching, you un-true fan" retaliation.

Yes, and I don't really understand that. Someone on my flist posted something like that about Stargate Atlantis the other day, and I just don't understand it. What does anyone care if I like the show or not?

Some of that came out a little stronger than I intended, because honestly, I believe that some people genuinely like the changes to the show, the cast additions, and so on. I also know people who stopped watching because the show wasn't something they liked all that much, but who (I think) would welcome the changes. I'm sure there are people who were Buffy fans who might give this show a chance now when they wouldn't before.

It's even possible that there really are some guys out there who might like the changes to the show, too. My husband and son really don't like the show for all of the reasons I love it: it's too dark, too serious, too much emo, too much sadness, too scary, too icky-gory, etc. etc. etc. And...there's nothing on there to appeal to them on a superficial level (i.e. pretty girls).

hehe

What bugs me is this insistence on both sides that one side is right and the other is wrong. What's wrong, IMHO, is trying to make others feel bad for having an opinion and expressing it--even if it's expressed with respect and thoughtfulness.

I also think it's wrong to insist that it's "harshing squee" if you want to discuss something in depth and bring up concerns. It's fun to squee and look at things more superficially and I love that sometimes, but not everyone enjoys that and not all the time. I think it's great to have "squee" posts, but if it's a discussion of an episode, story arc, or character, there are going to be people with differing opinions and that's okay, IMHO. Apparently a lot of people don't think it's okay. *g*

In some ways I think this may be even more evident on LJ, because you can't just avoid threads that don't appeal to you, though I think this attitude probably infects posts and threads everywhere there's general discussion.
astri13
Oct. 14th, 2007 11:29 pm (UTC)
What does anyone care if I like the show or not?

Heh. Yeah. As long as I`m not a Nielson watcher it matters a rat`s ass if I watch or not. I also resent the "you`re going to get it cancelled with all that negativity" attitude. But when the online fandom - or rather portions of it - spoke out against the new characters/changes, it was "you`re just the tiny online fandom, no one cares about you". Unless you need the reverse argument apparently. Lame.

This show will go on as long as it makes money for the studio. Period. If online bitching got a show cancelled half the schedule on TV would disappear. :)

What's wrong, IMHO, is trying to make others feel bad for having an opinion and expressing it--even if it's expressed with respect and thoughtfulness.

Very true. As long as it`s done in a respectful manner people should be given the same courtesy to express their opinions like one would want for oneself.
And if I don`t want to discuss with someone I either ignore them outright or tell them so and move on. The very fact that somewhere Josephine Schmoe in Ittybittyville, Wisconson disagrees with me and says so in a public forum doesn`t crash my world. *g*
katikat
Oct. 14th, 2007 08:19 pm (UTC)
That's why I keep away from the comms and boards etc. People who complain about stuff all the time and are unable to find one good thing about anything do ruin my fun. That's why I don't join wanks or threads or whatever. If they think the show is so horrible then they should stop watching. It's a free choice. I totally hated the episode Tall Tales but I still liked for example the bed fighting or Bobby's frustration with the boys. When someone says that an ep was disgusting/horrible/simply yucky from the very beginning to the end, well, then they are obviously watching the wrong show *shrugs* I tried Lost, I didn't like it, I stopped watching it. It's as simple as that.
astri13
Oct. 14th, 2007 08:27 pm (UTC)
People who complain about stuff all the time and are unable to find one good thing about anything do ruin my fun.

On the other hand I see a growing tendency to qualm any criticism with "don`t be so negative all the time, I liked it just fine (with the unspoken so you should too because what I say goes) and that gets to me.

For example I didn`t feel very much for the last two episodes - there were things in it I liked - but I was rather unable to connect emotionally. Yet saying that can get you swiftly attacked with what basically boils down to "they were great, you are just stupid to get it." Well, thank you very much.

Also I see how it can be hard to let go of a show depending on your investment in it. I certainly watched some shows longer than I probably should have because either I remembered past potential and hoping to see it again or some tiny glimpses of what I liked were still there or because an actor/actress I liked was in it.
katikat
Oct. 14th, 2007 08:37 pm (UTC)
Different people, different opinions *shrugs*

When I first heard about the girls, I hated the idea, I hated Kripke, I ranted and yelled... I behaved like a child having a temper tantrum. Now? I like the blondie. She kicks major ass.

When I heard about the possibility of Dean having a kid, I was convinced that the show jumped the shark this time. Now? I liked Ben so much that I actually feel sorry that Dean isn't his father.

Were this episodes as good as Born Under a Bad Sign? No. Were they better than No Exit or Tall Tales? In my opinion, hell yes. I like where Kripke is headed. I would prefer more Sam-and-Dean scenes but as long as the stupidity of Tall Tales doesn't return, I'm happy in my pants *shrugs*
astri13
Oct. 14th, 2007 08:58 pm (UTC)
Different people, different opinions *shrugs*

I`m totally down with that philosophy and that`s actually my problem when the very fact that other people have different opinions isn`t acceptable. Especially when it goes into personal insult territory with the aforementioned "you`re just too thick to get it" or even worse "as hateful as you are being, I hope your negative karma catches up with you." (Wasn`t directed at me but I`ve seen it directed at other people.)

Holy crap, that is some person somewhere behind their computer and just because their stance might annoy me, doesn`t mean I should wish ill things to happen to them. *shakes head*

I`m cool with everybody liking the eps or the direction of the show, power to them. Maybe I`ll love the next one and maybe they can turn it all around to make me pump my fist, I have no idea right now. Will watch and see.
legoline
Oct. 14th, 2007 09:27 pm (UTC)
See, I knew there was a reason why I keep out of online fandom most of the time... :-)
astri13
Oct. 14th, 2007 09:36 pm (UTC)
Good call, I really need to try it. I mean stuff like "I hope your negative karma gets you"??? What`s next, voodoo cursing someone who doesn`t agree with something? The mind boggles.
legoline
Oct. 14th, 2007 09:43 pm (UTC)
I dunno. I mean, I admire anyone who can actually go to message boards and return relatively sane... I'd just get a nervous breakdown :-)
( 14 have dazzled me — Dazzle me )