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I didn`t want to write anything more on this topic but what the heck I`m under serious medication. :)

So, full disclosure: I`m a woman. I like being a woman. It gives me advantages and disadvantages. However, how I approach both life and fictional situations is never: how does it affect me as a woman? How I approach things is always:
How does that make me feel as a person?

Because being a person defines me way before being a woman, a redhead, a lefty, a geek etc. And in that question I also look at the gender of the people involved second and their personalities first. Do they put me off? If so to what degree? Do they have kinks I can "live" with or not? I know I have my kinks and so do my friends and it`s basically the same there.

Context always matters. Especially in fictional universes. If fictional universes establish situation X, I`ll go by situation X if I value certain situations. Now I realize not everybody will go that way but I do.

Therefore, did I see an amped up fratboy humour in Season 3? Yes. Did I read misogyny in the show? No. In any of the characters? No.
It doesn`t fit my criteria for such and I will not apologize for that. I can explain as to why I feel this way but I won`t defend my right to feel this way. Because I don`t have to. That which doth offend you, doth not offend me. Simple as that.

Doesn`t make me silly, a hater, a shamer, an apologist, a bad woman or anything else. It means I have a different outlook in life. And unlike bodies in physics more than one opinion can be right and in one place at the same time.

Which is really all I have to say on the subject.

Comments

( 14 have dazzled me — Dazzle me )
pie_andcoffee
May. 24th, 2008 01:28 pm (UTC)
I kind of love you for this. Thank you so much. Makes me feel like a bit less of a weirdo for feeling exactly the same way - only couldn't say it with anywhere near the finesse as you did.
astri13
May. 24th, 2008 01:57 pm (UTC)
No prob. I resent the notion that just because I don`t see misogyny which is hatred of women after all in the show or in Dean`s words that makes me either an oppressor or deep down have no self-esteem.

I DO feel equal to men and frankly I feel that as such it would needlessly victimize myself to always look for victimizations of myself. If that makes sense.
(Deleted comment)
astri13
May. 24th, 2008 06:31 pm (UTC)
No prob about the defrieding. I find it sad when flocked stuff is gossiped on. I flock a post because I don`t actually want it to be spread. And even if someone at my flist violently disagrees with me, I`d expect enough respect to keep private private and defriend the hell out of me.

Also, friended bacl.
pie_andcoffee
May. 24th, 2008 09:47 pm (UTC)
thank you so much! you are truly awesomesauce. looking forward to getting to know you better.
rheasilvia
May. 24th, 2008 04:40 pm (UTC)
Has there been even more discussion on this subject? I'd hoped it had died down...
astri13
May. 24th, 2008 06:28 pm (UTC)
I think it prolongs but not as prominent. And I`m not berating people their right to be angry about it and rant about it but I wanted to make sure that among the voice of "this is misogyny" and "yeah, it is but who cares" etc, there is room for "hey, for me it`s NOT misogyny in the first place and I see believing that as my damn right" corner.
blacklid
May. 24th, 2008 04:54 pm (UTC)
Here from prettyfreckles's post. Very well stated. Thank you for writing it.
astri13
May. 24th, 2008 06:25 pm (UTC)
You`re welcome. Just needed to get it off my chest.
lovis
May. 24th, 2008 06:16 pm (UTC)
The stupid is as infectious as the small-pox, eh?

Damn, I finally got curious enough to take a look at that FW thread... and made a fast retreat.

OhEmGee! They're completely nuts!

I don't even see Dean as a sexist and misogyny...??!

The mind - it boggles.
astri13
May. 24th, 2008 06:25 pm (UTC)
I don't even see Dean as a sexist and misogyny...??!

He is also a racist because he hates demons. You know, those harmless guys who enjoy torturing and killing humans.

Damn, if I think about it the so-called good guys in Indepence Day where speci-ist fuckers, hating on those poor aliens who wanted nothing more than mass genocide and our planet. The nerve.

I don`t see him as sexist either which to me is treating women differently and as weaker. Which to me he doesn`t do. If he did, he would have treated Ruby as a silly, little girl instead of a dangerous/distrustworthy figure because she wore a female meatsuit.

He is objectifying females? Yeah, that`s a crime when everytime a new picspam of Jensen or Jared comes out the salivating "god, I`d love to run my tongue over these tight abs" etc posts crop up. Fandom, heal thyself.

Violence against females can`t be shown on TV, no matter if they are physically stronger in their universe? Every episode of Buffy belongs on the stake, I`m afraid because while she wins her fights, she takes a few blows too.
Or do we pick and choose on the subject? Because not down with that.
lovis
May. 24th, 2008 07:10 pm (UTC)
Ha! HaHA!

I laugh, because we agree so completely. *G*

I don`t see him as sexist either which to me is treating women differently and as weaker. Which to me he doesn`t do.

Exactly. I was wrecking my mind trying to think of a moment when he was sexist in some way and I honestly can't think of even one.
Dean never was a 'women are stupid' or 'women can't do this or that' kinda guy. In fact he openly states that women can... except Jo. ;)

He is objectifying females? Yeah, that`s a crime when everytime a new picspam of Jensen or Jared comes out the salivating "god, I`d love to run my tongue over these tight abs" etc posts crop up.

Amen. So. he's a horndog, aren't we? I very much won't exclude myself there. And who's the real person again? Also, his horndogness always come along like he's just really appreciating women ... in a horndoggy way. Ungh, I'm not saying this very well. What I mean is: Dean is not the kind of guy to use a woman and throw her away. Yes, he has had sex with a whole lot of women apparently but he would never coerce or force himself on a girl. And to presume that these women don't know what a one-night-stand is is what I call sexist.

Have you watched Smallville Season 4? Remember the episode Bound? That was a very good example of sexism on tv.

Violence against females can`t be shown on TV, no matter if they are physically stronger in their universe? Every episode of Buffy belongs on the stake

Oh good times, do you remember the kerfuffle about Spike punching Demon!Anya? Same shit.
astri13
May. 24th, 2008 07:35 pm (UTC)
And to presume that these women don't know what a one-night-stand is is what I call sexist.

Yeah. Having a lot of one-night stands is not a problem as long as both parties are consenting adults. To say a guy doing this devalues woman as silly little creatures who can`t have a healthy sex drive or insane-os who always run to buy the wedding dress in the morning. Huh?
That`s as bad as calling a woman who does sleep around a slut.

Have you watched Smallville Season 4? Remember the episode Bound? That was a very good example of sexism on tv.

Oh god, don`t remind me. That made out women as such vile, prude creatures who can`t help but being victimzed by big, bad men. Apparently their tiny, irrational brains lend themselves to that. Urgh.

And Lex reminiscing about how he "treated those poor women" and basically deserves to die for it. He had fucking sex with them, in total consent apparently. Now that was sexist as hell to me.

Oh good times, do you remember the kerfuffle about Spike punching Demon!Anya? Same shit.

I dimly recall. And you know, yes, males are typically stronger so a man hitting a woman is more charged than the reverse but if the female in question is canonically as strong as the male that argument goes out the window for me. Which is why, hello context.

Or that one time on Angel where Buffy came by, was a snotty brat over Faith, hit Angel and once he hits her right back, she immediately gives the big eyes and whispers in a little girl voice "you hit me."
Are you kidding me? What kind of kick-ass is that supposed to be? I can do whatever I want but once someone retaliates I`m a dainty little victime? Man, I`d slap myself silly.
andromakhe001
May. 28th, 2008 06:48 am (UTC)
That's exactly how I feel. It's sort of like the idea "I need a female character to identify with"? I'm always like Huh? I've never needed female characters to identify with in a story, I identify with characters as people, based on their personality, not on their gender. I've never had the slightest problem identifying with male characters because I see them as people first, not men. If I like the characters and I like the story, I don't care if women are involved or not.

So yes, I do think the language got unimaginative and crude this past season, but NO I don't think it shows misogyny on the parts of the writers or the characters because of the context of that crude language and whom 90% of it was directed towards.
astri13
May. 29th, 2008 08:26 pm (UTC)
I've never needed female characters to identify with in a story, I identify with characters as people, based on their personality, not on their gender. I've never had the slightest problem identifying with male characters because I see them as people first, not men. If I like the characters and I like the story, I don't care if women are involved or not.

1000 % how I feel. I can love a show with an all male cast and loathe one with an all female one if the characters themselves are to my liking or not. Or completely the reverse.

but NO I don't think it shows misogyny on the parts of the writers or the characters because of the context of that crude language and whom 90% of it was directed towards.

Ditto again.
( 14 have dazzled me — Dazzle me )